This forum includes tips for maintaining the best audio quality possible with the Ooma System. If your Ooma system is having issues with dropped calls, static audio or echo, look here for assistance.
#95292 by snooker
Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:26 pm
I have had my Telo for only a week and I've had some issues so I'm trying to learn exactly how to best set it up. There is a QoS question in here, but bear with me on the background first...

I am a basic NEW user and nothing fancy in my setup, but I have learned a lot on this forum about QoS (Quality of Service) settings and measurement tools. I will list it here in case it will help others.
First the tools and sites:
- Measure speed/capacity: speedtest.comcast.net and speedtest.net and others
- ShapeProbe from GA Tech: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~partha/diffpr ... probe.html is a cool little .exe program that people on the Comcast forum like to use to collect capacity info more reliably and quickly.
There is no install, and since it is a stand alone executable it just pops up a little window and does not deal with Java in browsers, etc. It also measures traffic shaping which may be of interest to some (and is its real purpose).
- WhichVoip tests at: http://www.whichvoip.com/voip/speed_test/ppspeed.html A suite of VOIP tests to analyze your total connectivity over several parameters not just speed but consistency, latency, etc. Rates your overall setup.
- To stress downloads, use of a download manager like FlashGet http://www.flashget.com/index_en.html and I got big (1GB) files to download from http://www.thinkbroadband.com/download.html
- To stress uploads, I used FileZilla http://filezilla-project.org/ to FTP upload big files from my PC, in this case I sent them to my own web site hosted in another state
- Can call an echo back test number 909-390-0003 which simply echoes back as you talk. But I have found the quality always degrades after a minute or so for any of my experiments below, even when they passed quality checks and when calls to other people sound fine.

I measured my available Down and Up capacity by connecting my PC directly to the modem and using several of the above tools especially ShapeProbe. I got 35Mbps Down and 6.6Mbps Up.

QoS Background Knowledge:
I have found the best background information that explains QoS at http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html
Key learnings for me regarding QoS on *any* device (be it an Ooma or a router) is that:
- Controlling what a device send UPstream is more important than DOWNstream simply because ISP's limit UPstream speeds much more and is needed by VOIP. So the discussion below centers on UPstream (Which is why you set the Ooma Qos for Downstream to 0 typically... Although DOWNstream may be an issue for you if yours is SLOW but I'm ignoring it here).
- If this device has no other devices connected downstream then you don't need any QoS on THIS device because all packets sent upstream originate within THIS device and nothing comes into from the outside. This includes when the Ooma is behind the router (Modem>Router>Ooma) and the Home Network port is not connected. Which is why you set the Ooma QoS for UPstream to 0 in this case - you don't need it.
- The QoS feature is an attempt to prioritize upstream traffic that it sends out. To do this it needs to know the available upstream bandwidth which it will then try to fill up with prioritized content. On routers it will try to automatically set the upstream speed or let you manually set it (as the auto feature sometimes is wrong), but on Ooma you have to manually set this QoS Upstream setting.
- The link explains what happens if the actual bandwidth is less than the programmed bandwidth setting and quality issues can arise from lost packets, and the key here is that at the upstream modem does not distinguish Ooma Voip packets from any other data packets so it can just as easily drop an Ooma packet and this can affect Ooma quality. Another explanation is here: https://www.ooma.com/support/knowledgeba ... ty-service and a link at the bottom of that page.

Ooma specifics for QoS:
- The Ooma Qos is controlled in the Advanced tab under Quality of Service, and the setting for Upstream Internet Speed (kbps). If 0 is entered it is disabled.
- The Ooma Qos (when enabled) does not do anything unless you are in a phone call with Ooma. It does not affect any upstream flow at all if not in a call.

You can see in my signature this is what I have:
- Comcast Performance service level (12Mbps Down / 2Mbps Up, in addition to PowerBoost).
- Motorola Surfboard SB6121 Cable Modem
- Ooma Telo
- D-Link DIR-655 Router

I measured my available Down and Up capacity by connecting my PC directly to the modem and using several of the above tools especially ShapeProbe. I got 35Mbps Down and 6.6Mbps Up.
The bulk of the questions revolve around: If my upstream has 6600 kbps capacity, what do I set my Ooma QoS Upstream setting to be??? But it is a bit more involved than that it seems, after all.

There are 2 ways to connect the Ooma:
A. Modem > Router > Ooma (behind the router)
- This is what the Quick Start setup guide says to use. The QoS on the Ooma is not really used (though the shipped setting is 384kbps but you should set it 0). So it seems to me that now you are relying on an upstream device (the router) to make sure the Ooma packets have higher priority or you will have call problems.
- I found great directions on how to setup (ALL IN MY ROUTER): to reserve the Ooma DHCP IP address so it is fixed, then to set QoS so that Ooma's IP/Port/Protocol has higher priority, and also set the router QoS upstream speed manually. Why isn't this part of standard directions or at least hinted at? Full directions at: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5876
- This setup has Ooma using whatever bandwidth it needs and the router gives it top priority when it sends it upstream. An advantage is that the router will still be able to send packets from its other inputs to the upstream modem until it has used the available bandwidth it has been told it has, as set in the routers own QoS upstream speed settings.

B. Modem > Ooma > Router (in front of the router)
- Everyone seems to agree if Ooma VOIP quality is your top priority then this setup has the best chance of achieving the best quality. Makes sense because it is right by the modem and has final control over upstream flow control - Ooma decides WHAT and how much to flow upstream to the modem.
- In this situation you need to determine a setting to put into Ooma for QoS Upstream Internet Speed. Of course you should not exceed the actual UPstream speed from your ISP, and most things I've read say to put in 80% of what your actual is, to be conservative. But maybe not?? this leads to my questions...
- Note the router still has QoS speed settings you might want to set the speed manually but this would be for other traffic and does not really impact Ooma directly.

???? My questions involve setup B: Ooma in front of the router:
Q1. What is unclear to me is how much bandwidth does Ooma really need (I've heard 250k min)? If it is a sliding scale vs. quality, then how much for highest quality and how is it controlled by users?
Q2. How does the value entered for "Upstream speed" impact:
a. The amount of bandwidth Ooma uses.
b. The relative quality of Ooma voice call service.
c. How much bandwidth remains for other purposes coming from the router. Is it restricted artificially by limitations of Ooma?
>> Answers to these will determine what formula to use for upstream speed to enter, as I'm not sure 75 or 80% of max available may be the actual answer, due to limitations of Ooma...
Q3. If I set the *Router* QoS UPstream speed manually, what formula to use - same as Ooma or subtract off the Ooma usage or ??

Here is what I've tried:
- For my 6600 actual UP speed available, I've set the Router Qos UP speed to 5000 and I've set the Ooma UP speed to values from 384 to 5000. I've run speed tests and ShapeProbe and even WhichVoip quality check tests. Without spewing out all the results I've noticed a few things:
- Using ShapeProbe to measure capacity, as I put in increasing values for Up speed, the amount Ooma uses still increase to well over 1000 as it the input value hits 5000. I assume it is a sliding quality scale and more is better, but now I'm not so sure.
- I'd like to just set Ooma Qos Up speed set to 5000, as this gives maximum bandwidth for other devices while I am on a call. For this setting, the WhichVoip quality tests gave all 6 green lights with Quality ratings of 96% and 98%. After that I had concurrent big file uploads going, and downloads, and streaming music to TV and made an Ooma phone call - maybe some quality issues but minor (I'm too new yet).

HOWEVER HERE IS A KEY QUESTION: ******
- I then called Ooma several times and several techs told me, even though I *could* set the UP speed to 5000 in my case, from their troubleshooting experience (and maybe what they have been trained) is this:
- It should be set to 384 minimum if possible AND: It is advised to not set it over 768 and for sure, NEVER BE SET TO MORE THAN 1000 !!!
- In other words if you have high upload speeds available, set it 768 kbps! **************** Period!
- They seemed to imply that the Ooma design just does not handle all the additional traffic well so do not set it to something like 5000 or you may have issues.
- The problem with setting it to 768 instead of 5000 is that when you are on an Ooma call, the remaining upload bandwidth for other purposes is reduced by a major amount, certainly is not ideal.

????
Q4. Does anybody know why and how this really works or can at least give educated advice? Is it true to use 768 max. Period? I'm sure there are people that have set it to over 768 that will say "I've never had a problem." but if you can't tell by now I'm trying to figure this out OPTIMALLY once up front and be done with it.
- Not having much time on my Ooma well of course I could just try 5000 and see, but I'd rather not. If I leave it at 5000, should the router be at 5000 also or a little smaller (subtract off 1000+ for Ooma). I figure if Ooma uses 1000 there is only 4000 left. Problem with that is it also limits it when Ooma is not in a call!

So my choice is to leave Ooma in front of the router and try 768 or 5000, or move it behind the router where I won't have bandwidth issues on the remaining clients. And listen for quality problems.

Q5. In all my settings experiments, I also tried calling the echo back number 909-390-0003. The sound coming back ALWAYS degrades after the first minute and gets worse and worse over time. Even when I think my setting works fine and passes quality tests and talking to other real humans sounds fine. Anybody else tried this? wazzup?

Q6. I'm also curious about Codecs, I think there used to be settings in my.ooma.com where you could pick a "better quality" codec. Is this now gone or overall what is important to know - anything that can be set to improve things for the AVERAGE user?

Thanks,
-snooker
Last edited by snooker on Tue May 01, 2012 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#95312 by snooker
Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:55 am
Ok some REAL data:
Here is some more speed data for various configurations described in my original post.
This is all for Ooma in front of the router: Modem->Ooma->Router

My measuring PC is connected to a router port so it is downstream of the router so it is measuring effective capacity for other devices on my network which is the point of this test.
I am trying to put Ooma in front of the router which give the best quality performance according to most people, yet I am also wanting to still have the max available bandwidth for all other router usage WHILE Ooma is in a call.

The numbers show the router's QoS setting will throttle the upload speeds and ONLY when Ooma is in a call the Ooma QoS setting will kick in and be the controlling throttle overall.

When is says the Router is OFF below, I have turned OFF its QoS so it doesn't throttle at all (via UNCHECKing the "Enable Traffic Shaping" in the DIR-655 and the page greys out).
There is no other traffic in my network when the speed tests are being made. I used ShaperProbe to measure. There are 2 results for each setting, whether or not I am currently in an Ooma call (calling the echo back 909 number from above):


*****************************************************
Resulting Upstream Capacity (Kbps)

QoS Upstream Setting || In Ooma call?
Router Ooma || ... No ... ... Yes ...
-------- -------- || -------- --------
a) 5000 5000 || 4562 2838
b) 5000 768 || 4577 401
c) OFF 5000 || 6405 2917
d) OFF 768 || 6416 402

Results are in ^^^^ ^^^^
right side...
*****************************************************
(can't figure out how to use simple text formatting so it lines up! - sorry)

This is somewhat as expected, however notice for case a) the result is 2838 when Ooma is in a call. So Ooma "uses" 4562 - 2838 = 1724 kbps in this case. ??

Back to my original question: I'd like to set it up as case a) Ooma=5000, but tech say case b) Ooma=768 is the max I should use, and then my leftover bandwidth goes from 2838 to 401 for others?
Does using >768 setting in Ooma really cause a higher chance of call quality issues?

thanks,
-snooker
#95362 by coastalcruiser
Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:21 pm
snooker wrote:I have had my Telo for only a week and I've had some issues so I'm trying to learn exactly how to best set it up. There is a QoS question in here, but bear with me on the background first...


First, that is some really great info and links you are sharing. Very helpful to another VoIP beginner.

I don't have an answer to your question, but for totally different reasons I am dealing with the same issue you are in terms of setting upstream speed (see my recent post on setting up 10 ooma phones). My need to hook 10 ooma phones to a single Internet connection forces me to abandon the QoS features of the ooma telo, because the telo connected to my modem simply can't allocate bandwidth properly for the 9 telos downstream. So, I need to turn to a 3rd party device to mange the upstream bandwidth for everyone. That device of course is a QoS capable switch.

I'm thinking that you could solve your bandwidth allocation issue the same way. I've been looking at the Netgear GSxE series, which another member here turned me on to. Here is an example of a 5port model:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002YK ... PDKIKX0DER

This switch does more than QoS though, which is important for my scenario, and may be for yours as well. You can set a specific speed on each port. And I don't mean 10/100, or half or full duplex. I mean a specific speed in kbs. So you could program one port at, say, 384kbs, and plug your telo's Internet port into it. This way the telo does not hog all the rest of your upstream speed (I assume you would set the upstream speed on the telo itself to 0.)

So you abandon the idea of putting the telo before the router. You put it after the router (into aforementioned switch port) and let the switch manage things. Naturally you can set the other ports to their own speed or leave at the default. And of course you would set the "telo" port on the switch for QoS voice traffic, which would actually manage the contention from other devices on your home network. So setting the port SPEED makes the telo happy, and setting the port QoS setting maintains call quality.

One last thing. I saw a reference in another thread that recommended putting the telo in the DMZ zone if you place it after the router. From my knowledge of networking (many years), that sounds like a gooood idea. Setting up a DMZ, or Demilitarized Zone, if you didn't know, is simply a matter of typing the telo's IP address into your router in the correct place (most consumer routers have a DMZ option). What this does is expose the telo directly to the Internet, which more closely mimics the environment it has when placed before the router and plugged into the Internet modem.

food for thought

jim
#95363 by coastalcruiser
Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:31 pm
snooker wrote:I measured my available Down and Up capacity by connecting my PC directly to the modem and using several of the above tools especially ShapeProbe. I got 35Mbps Down and 6.6Mbps Up.


And by the way.... WOW, Where do you live? Denver? I thought you had to live in a developing nation to get such speeds.
#95373 by Aveamantium
Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:36 am
Hey Snooker,

Nice to see a fellow Loveland(ite) here! :D

The way I understand QOS in the Telo is you give it your actual upload and download speeds (or at least about 80% to account for variability) since the Telo wont test this on its own. Never heard of the 768 kbps idea... From here the Telo will assign the needed bandwidth to the call and leave the rest to your LAN while on a call. This is all assuming you have the Telo first in line (between the modem and router)...

Having said that, with the speeds you're showing I'd put the Telo behind your router and forget about Qos (unless you're having call issues). I have about 20 Kbps down and 4 Kbps up here and have the Telo behind my router with absolutely no QOS implementation (in my router) and have no phone issues.

I'll admit that I'm being a bit lazy here and didn't get a chance to read/comprehend your entire post so please let me know if there are specifics I can help with!

Regards!
#95384 by snooker
Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:11 pm
Hi CoastalCruiser,

First thanks for your post. I was watching the last few days as nobody posted at all, and figured my post was too long and nobody wanted to read it at all!

That Netgear switch does sound interesting but in my case I don't have any special needs really, just want to figure out if I should try 5000 or will it give me unexpected random issues where 768 is recommended as the max.

For now I'm leaving my setup Modem->Ooma->Router and setting the ooma to 5000 kbps upstream QoS. So far no problems in the last few days but we don't really use it that much.

As to my speed - well I just switched to Comcast Internet last week but I know a few other customers in Loveland - Ft. Collins that are all getting 35-ish M down and 6-ish M up. But your router may choke the upstream speed if you let it's QoS automatically measure upstream speed. It never seems to come close to finding the full 6 Mbps and so I set it manually to 5000 as well.

I'm still hoping someone with a lot of Ooma experience and posts might consider reading this and giving their feedback to my questions as well.

p.s. I'm impressed with the phone support at Ooma! I always get connected immediately. Right there it is way above industry average!! And I don't know how to say it politely but the Philippines is a great place for offshore phone support IMHO because I find their English very easy to understand and I think they are very kind and helpful in general, and knowledgeable. Of course each person has different amount of training and background, but it is so easy to talk to a new agent I just call back in and ask my question again. And 2 of them said they have learned from their personal customer debug experience and also from training that 768 is the MAX that should ever be set. So I was expecting some others to relate similar information. Still hoping...
#95385 by snooker
Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:21 pm
Aveamantium wrote:... Never heard of the 768 kbps idea... From here the Telo will assign the needed bandwidth to the call and leave the rest to your LAN while on a call. This is all assuming you have the Telo first in line (between the modem and router)...
So is your name something about being an Avalanche fan?? .. rough year...

anyhow.. Ooma does not necessarily "leave the rest" to your LAN while on a call. I mean it does but it is restricted to the QoS upstream setting you give to Ooma. So if you blindly install it and leave it set to the default of 384 then practically nothing gets left over during a call.. And you can see from my test results above, even when I set Ooma to 5000, it uses a Lot more than 768 of the total available.
Aveamantium wrote:... I have about 20 Kbps down and 4 Kbps up here ...
You *DO* you mean Mbps, right? :shock:

p.s. do you know how to post a fixed type of font here (courier, etc) so my chart is legible?
p.p.s. is there a trick to get an Ooma support person to post a reply? (I'm assuming you are not one...)
#95386 by murphy
Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:25 pm
snooker wrote:And 2 of them said they have learned from their personal customer debug experience and also from training that 768 is the MAX that should ever be set. So I was expecting some others to relate similar information. Still hoping...

That is nonsense.
The Telo needs to know what your actual speed is so it knows how much to let through. Cable internet complicates the picture because cable internet is a shared resource so the speed varies with the load on the system.

That said with the speeds that you are getting you can set both values to zero which disables the QOS. The amount that the Telo needs is a drop in the bucket compared to those speeds.
#95388 by snooker
Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:55 pm
murphy wrote:
snooker wrote:And 2 of them said they have learned from their personal customer debug experience and also from training that 768 is the MAX that should ever be set. So I was expecting some others to relate similar information. Still hoping...

That is nonsense.
The Telo needs to know what your actual speed is so it knows how much to let through. Cable internet complicates the picture because cable internet is a shared resource so the speed varies with the load on the system.

That said with the speeds that you are getting you can set both values to zero which disables the QOS. The amount that the Telo needs is a drop in the bucket compared to those speeds.

Hi Murphy, thanks for your response! The impression I got was that in actual use there was some kind of product limitation such that although you should be able to enter a big number like 5000, it would actually cause some sort of problem, perhaps the ooma box could not dependably just pass the other bandwidth through or ??

I have a brand new Telo from Amazon stock so maybe this issue was only for older firmware or an older product before the Telo, or like you say it is just nonsense. But 2 different phone people said similar things so that's what made me type in that huge post. :?

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