Problems using My Ooma? Ideas on how we can make it better? You’ve come to the right place.
#55121 by aacctv
Sun May 09, 2010 9:26 pm
Just got a hub from Fry's "refurbished"and I just activated my account. I'm looking at the "my account" page. I dont understand what they are talking about.
Your service level is: Premier, Free Trial
Base service tier: Ooma Core
Trial status: Trial ends in 59 days
Taxes and fees: No payments due at this time, subject to Terms and Conditions


What I dont understand is that what would happen after 59 days? My account would go back to Basic for service Level? For the Base service tier, would it go back to Ooma Basic?

After 59 days, do I have to pay for all the taxes and fees?
#55122 by lbmofo
Sun May 09, 2010 10:35 pm
Some folks here have mentioned that "Base service tier: Ooma Core" says that your Hub is from ooma Core (hub + scout combo). As of now, ooma is honoring "no tax" for ooma Core customers. When you activated, did you have to put in your credit card #? If so, your Hub is not from a Core. You can PM/Email ntoy and find out for sure if you have a "golden egg," Core.

If your Hub is not Core, then you'd have to pay monthly tax:

Bobby B wrote:To clarify there are two regulatory recovery fee (RRF) types out there:

  • If your retail box says "...We need to charge roughly $11.75/year" - You have a $11.75 annual RRF starting the second year. Ooma picks up the RRF for the first year of service so you'd only pay starting the 2nd year.
  • If your retail box says "...fees are billed monthly" - You have a monthly RRF (check this link for the amount) starting the second month. The only exception to this is if you activated before early April, in which case you'd have the $11.75/year RRF.


With basic/free service, you get caller-ID, call-waiting, E911, and voicemail (unless you are Core, your incoming caller-ID only has number, much like a cell phone, and no name).
#55125 by aacctv
Sun May 09, 2010 10:52 pm
I didnt have to put in my Credit Card #. So that would make my hub an Ooma Core? If so, am I guaranteed that I would not have to pay taxes and fees in the future?
#55135 by lbmofo
Mon May 10, 2010 6:38 am
aacctv wrote:I didnt have to put in my Credit Card #. So that would make my hub an Ooma Core? If so, am I guaranteed that I would not have to pay taxes and fees in the future?

ooma makes it clear that the terms/conditions are subject to change. However, for now, they are honoring the "no tax" for ooma core.
#55140 by sfhub
Mon May 10, 2010 7:21 am
aacctv wrote:I didnt have to put in my Credit Card #. So that would make my hub an Ooma Core? If so, am I guaranteed that I would not have to pay taxes and fees in the future?

None of us "users" are going to guarantee anything. Ooma reps could tell you what you got with authority. However, I'll tell you that you have one of the Ooma Hubs that originally came from an Ooma Core bundle and won't be paying any fees.
#55187 by sfhub
Mon May 10, 2010 11:45 am
lbmofo wrote:ooma makes it clear that the terms/conditions are subject to change. However, for now, they are honoring the "no tax" for ooma core.

Actually the product marketing for the Ooma Core (hub+scout bundle) made it clear there would never be fees. Never is pretty specific and not up to interpretation.

Further they had many charts of savings that backed up the no fees as every other provider had recurring fees and Ooma only had the one-time buy (labeled as such).

If you aren't sure about something, I don't think you should post it as if it is certain.

This if from the Ooma marketing literature for the Ooma Core (Hub+Scout bundle)

Is it free at first and then later you hit me with
monthly fees?
No, with ooma, there are never any monthly fees for
calling in the US. But we do hope you’ll try out ooma
Premier, our optional bundle of advanced calling
features. It’s the perfect solution for controlling and
simplifying your household communications
#55197 by lbmofo
Mon May 10, 2010 12:21 pm
sfhub wrote:
lbmofo wrote:ooma makes it clear that the terms/conditions are subject to change. However, for now, they are honoring the "no tax" for ooma core.

Actually the product marketing for the Ooma Core (hub+scout bundle) made it clear there would never be fees. Never is pretty specific and not up to interpretation.

Further they had many charts of savings that backed up the no fees as every other provider had recurring fees and Ooma only had the one-time buy (labeled as such).

If you aren't sure about something, I don't think you should post it as if it is certain.

This if from the Ooma marketing literature for the Ooma Core (Hub+Scout bundle)

Is it free at first and then later you hit me with
monthly fees?
No, with ooma, there are never any monthly fees for
calling in the US. But we do hope you’ll try out ooma
Premier, our optional bundle of advanced calling
features. It’s the perfect solution for controlling and
simplifying your household communications

I hope you are right. But, they've been talking about "never any fees." Not "never any taxes."
I am darn sure ooma can change, at their discretion, any part of the Terms/Conditions without notice.
Like it or not, this means to the Core Terms/Conditions as well.
Like I said, I hope you are right but I doubt you can get any ooma staff to say "never any tax" for Core customers.

Check this post out: "Terms/Conditions Subject to Change"
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6780&p=48271#p48271

Read the Terms/Conditions
https://www.ooma.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

"Notice and Changes: Our Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which can change at any time without notice. Unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we can change the Terms and Conditions of your Services at any time, with or without notice. Changes may include features and prices. If we do give you notice, it may be provided on the Ooma web site, your account web page, in a newsletter, by email, by telephone or other communication permitted under applicable law. This Agreement may not be amended or modified by you."

I read nothing about Core customers being exempt from this.
#55198 by sfhub
Mon May 10, 2010 12:41 pm
lbmofo wrote:I hope you are right. But, they've been talking about "never any fees." Not "never any taxes."

The savings chart makes it clear what they meant.

lbmofo wrote:I am darn sure ooma can change, at their discretion, any part of the Terms/Conditions without notice.

First off, you need to recover the Terms&Conditions that were applicable at the time of the Ooma Core purchase, not the terms that are there today which have been modified a couple of times since then, but let's assume you use the current ToS.

So you don't think we have consumer protection laws that protect us against advertising one thing then substituting another? See the underlined section in the Terms&Conditions.

lbmofo wrote:Read the Terms/Conditions
https://www.ooma.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

"Notice and Changes: Our Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which can change at any time without notice. Unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we can change the Terms and Conditions of your Services at any time, with or without notice. Changes may include features and prices. If we do give you notice, it may be provided on the Ooma web site, your account web page, in a newsletter, by email, by telephone or other communication permitted under applicable law. This Agreement may not be amended or modified by you."


In case there was any ambiguity the following clarification on the ToS is direct from Ooma:
https://www.ooma.com/blog/how-oomas-term ... customers/
Ooma had the chance to clarify and it doesn't say No RRF "at this time". It says no RRF "will be charged". This taken along with their marketing literature saying "Never" any fees and the savings chart showing the cost comparison breakdown is very clear and unambiguous.
Ooma Hub/Scout Combination Products (Includes Costco.com purchases)

1.Current Ooma Core Users
1.No changes to your current feature set including voice mail.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
2.Current Ooma Premier Users
1.No changes to your current feature set.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
3.If you are paying monthly for Premier your monthly price will change to $9.99 from $12.99.
4.If you wish to buy an additional year of Premier at $99.99 you have until 12/31/09.
3.Current Ooma Premier Trial Users
1.No changes to your current feature set.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
3.If you want to purchase an annual Ooma Premier subscription, you can do so until 12/31/09 at $99.99, after that the price will go up by $20 to $119.99.
4.New or Unactivated Ooma Hub/Scout Comboinations
1.No changes to your promised feature set, includes voicemail and a 60 Premier Trial.
2.If you want to purchase an annual Ooma Premier subscription, you can do so until 12/31/09 at $99.99, after that the price will go up by $20 to $119.99.
3.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.


Basically according to your interpretation, Ooma can change anything, features and pricing, at their discretion at any point in time. That means you don't actually have a valid contract because there, by definition, could never have been a meeting of the minds. That is a strong case to get your money back from Ooma. It also means that, in your world, Ooma could decide to give you 10 domestic minutes and drop caller-id, call-waiting, and voicemail because they can change anything at anytime and according to the ToS "Changes may include features and prices"

In addition to the written assurance above, from a practical standpoint, either Ooma does well and adds a lot of new customers, in which case, people paying no fees become a very small portion of their customer base, or Ooma doesn't add new customers at a good pace.

If the latter, we are all screwed and Ooma won't be around so the issue is moot.

If the former, then they can easily just tack on a small percentage to the monthly customers to take care of the costs on the old customers. It would be much cheaper to do that than to change the advertised pricing on older customers/products and have to deal with negative publicity and spend legal fees defending class action suits.
#55210 by lbmofo
Mon May 10, 2010 2:16 pm
sfhub wrote:
lbmofo wrote:I hope you are right. But, they've been talking about "never any fees." Not "never any taxes."

The savings chart makes it clear what they meant.

The savings charts are for comparison purposes only and would still be valid if ooma decided to charge RRF on Cores

lbmofo wrote:I am darn sure ooma can change, at their discretion, any part of the Terms/Conditions without notice.

First off, you need to recover the Terms&Conditions that were applicable at the time of the Ooma Core purchase, not the terms that are there today which have been modified a couple of times since then, but let's assume you use the current ToS.

I'd be shocked if any version of Terms/Conditions, no matter how far you go back, didn't contain "subject to change" language.

So you don't think we have consumer protection laws that protect us against advertising one thing then substituting another? See the underlined section in the Terms&Conditions.

If ooma started charging for basic service, they'll have a big problem. But charging tax, no, they won't have problems in court.

lbmofo wrote:Read the Terms/Conditions
https://www.ooma.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

"Notice and Changes: Our Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which can change at any time without notice. Unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we can change the Terms and Conditions of your Services at any time, with or without notice. Changes may include features and prices. If we do give you notice, it may be provided on the Ooma web site, your account web page, in a newsletter, by email, by telephone or other communication permitted under applicable law. This Agreement may not be amended or modified by you."


In case there was any ambiguity the following clarification on the ToS is direct from Ooma:
https://www.ooma.com/blog/how-oomas-term ... customers/
Ooma had the chance to clarify and it doesn't say No RRF "at this time". It says no RRF "will be charged". This taken along with their marketing literature saying "Never" any fees and the savings chart showing the cost comparison breakdown is very clear and unambiguous.

Bottom line: "free phone service" <> "no tax"

Ooma Hub/Scout Combination Products (Includes Costco.com purchases)

1.Current Ooma Core Users
1.No changes to your current feature set including voice mail.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
2.Current Ooma Premier Users
1.No changes to your current feature set.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
3.If you are paying monthly for Premier your monthly price will change to $9.99 from $12.99.
4.If you wish to buy an additional year of Premier at $99.99 you have until 12/31/09.
3.Current Ooma Premier Trial Users
1.No changes to your current feature set.
2.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.
3.If you want to purchase an annual Ooma Premier subscription, you can do so until 12/31/09 at $99.99, after that the price will go up by $20 to $119.99.
4.New or Unactivated Ooma Hub/Scout Comboinations
1.No changes to your promised feature set, includes voicemail and a 60 Premier Trial.
2.If you want to purchase an annual Ooma Premier subscription, you can do so until 12/31/09 at $99.99, after that the price will go up by $20 to $119.99.
3.No annual regulatory recovery fee will be charged.


Basically according to your interpretation, Ooma can change anything, features and pricing, at their discretion at any point in time. That means you don't actually have a valid contract because there, by definition, could never have been a meeting of the minds. That is a strong case to get your money back from Ooma. It also means that, in your world, Ooma could decide to give you 10 domestic minutes and drop caller-id, call-waiting, and voicemail because they can change anything at anytime and according to the ToS "Changes may include features and prices"

As long as they keep "free phone service" available, they can do whatever they want. They can start charging Core customers tax, reduce allowable minutes, drop caller-id, drop call forwarding, drop voicemail. No problem. But is it logical for ooma to do that? That's a key consideration.

In addition to the written assurance above, from a practical standpoint, either Ooma does well and adds a lot of new customers, in which case, people paying no fees become a very small portion of their customer base, or Ooma doesn't add new customers at a good pace.

If the latter, we are all screwed and Ooma won't be around so the issue is moot.

If the former, then they can easily just tack on a small percentage to the monthly customers to take care of the costs on the old customers. It would be much cheaper to do that than to change the advertised pricing on older customers/products and have to deal with negative publicity and spend legal fees defending class action suits.

The reason that Core customers are not charged any recurring RRF and earlier Telo/Hub customers are charged $11.75/yr and not this new monthly tax according to zip is because ooma wanted to and, this is important, not because they have to.

#55234 by sfhub
Mon May 10, 2010 5:54 pm
lbmofo wrote:The savings charts are for comparison purposes only and would still be valid if ooma decided to charge RRF on Cores

Actually it wouldn't. There is simply no way to reconcile a chart that lists Ooma as a one-time buy in with future years listed as "no other costs" and a monthly or yearly RRF.

lbmofo wrote:If ooma started charging for basic service, they'll have a big problem. But charging tax, no, they won't have problems in court.
...
As long as they keep "free phone service" available, they can do whatever they want. They can start charging Core customers tax, reduce allowable minutes, drop caller-id, drop call forwarding, drop voicemail. No problem. But is it logical for ooma to do that? That's a key consideration.

I'm playing devil's advocate here and clearly don't agree with your statement. I maintain a ToS cannot override existing consumer protection laws against false advertising. Just because a ToS says something doesn't mean it'll stand up in court.

At least starting with the $11.75 change, they put an asterisk after "Free xyz" mentioning you are responsible for applicable taxes and fees. You could at least argue the consumer was informed they still had to pay taxes and fees. For the Ooma Core (hub+scout) bundle though, there was no asterisk mentioning taxes and fees. There was verbiage that said there would never be fees, and there were charts that clearly indicated there were "no other costs" beyond the one-time buy so it was clear what they meant.

However assuming your version of the world, where exactly in the ToS does it even say you are guaranteed "free phone service"? Why isn't that just a feature or price they can change over time just like everything else?

I understand the position you are taking. I may not agree with the ability of a ToS to override consumer protection laws against false advertising, but if one were to subscribe to your position, I don't understand why you arbitrarily select "free phone service" as the line that cannot be crossed. You should be consistent and just say any service, feature, or price in Ooma can change according to the ToS.

I'll paraphrase:
Service can be just Basic Service.
Service and associated charges may change from time to time.
Changes may include features and prices.

https://www.ooma.com/legal/terms-and-conditions
"Service(s)" are any combination of Basic Service, Non-Residential Service and Other Service.

"Service charges, taxes and fees: Services, taxes, fees and associated charges, will be posted on our web site at http://www.Ooma.com/rates/, may change from time to time and are incorporated by reference herein. Failure to pay such charges may result in suspension or termination of your account without notice."

"Notice and Changes: Our Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which can change at any time without notice. Unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we can change the Terms and Conditions of your Services at any time, with or without notice. Changes may include features and prices. If we do give you notice, it may be provided on the Ooma web site, your account web page, in a newsletter, by email, by telephone or other communication permitted under applicable law. This Agreement may not be amended or modified by you."


lbmofo wrote:The reason that Core customers are not charged any recurring RRF and earlier Telo/Hub customers are charged $11.75/yr and not this new monthly tax according to zip is because ooma wanted to and, this is important, not because they have to.

I maintain that there are more reasons Ooma is honoring the pricing they advertised than just because they "wanted to".

First and foremost not honoring the pricing advertised would greatly increase the chances of running up against false advertising law suits (and associated wasted time, resources, and money)

Going back on their advertised pricing would also generate a lot of negative press and sentiments among their user base.

IMO Ooma wants to be a stand-up company by doing the right thing and in that way what they wanted to do aligned with what it was in their best interest to do.

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