Problems using My Ooma? Ideas on how we can make it better? You’ve come to the right place.
#48812 by sfhub
Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:21 am
debonas wrote:Allo, I dont sell ooma . I dont sell vonage either. As a user I just put out my thinking for others who have usage patterns like me. This forum is for information sharing. There is no reason to be abusive.

For the record, I don't sell Ooma or Vonage. However, I don't think that is really relevant at all as long one is willing to post their analysis and allow people to comment. I think you will find that instead saying "RIP Ooma?" and representing most of us you simply said "Ooma Intl doesn't make sense *for me*" the responses would have a different tone matching your initial post.

I will take the approach of calculating the first year and future year difference and see how many Intl minutes this buys you using a calling card.

Basically if your monthly rate doesn't include taxes and "fees" you can expect to pay 25% or more above advertised prices.

I have no doubt $24.99 (or $25.99) works out to $31-$35/mo after taxes and fees depending on your area.

Ooma is $11.75/yr after taxes and fees starting 2nd year (with no international plan)


Vonage
======
1st year
Current website promotional pricing $14.99 x 6 + $25.99 x 6 = $245.88 * 1.25 (taxes and fees) = $307.35

Future year
Regular pricing $25.99 x 12 = $311.88 * 1.25 (taxes and fees) = $389.85


Ooma
====
1st year
$199.99 Telo equipment fee (current Amazon pricing with free shipping, no sales tax), $0 taxes and fees

Future year
$0 equipment fee, $11.75/yr taxes and fees


Comparison
==========
First year difference (Vonage - Ooma)
$307.35 - $199.99 = $107.36

Future year difference (Vonage - Ooma)
$389.85 - $11.75 = $378.10


Using that $378/yr ($107 first year), you can buy a PIN-less calling card (just dial access #, then intl #, no need to enter PIN) with
o ability to use from any phone
o *$0* maintenance fee
o *1* second billing increments
o no expiration (must use once every 12 months)

and pay the rates (*after* taxes and fees) listed below to the 72 countries/territories included in Vonage World. I took a very competitive large player in the calling card world and assumed they have optimized their rates reasonably well for most countries. I just took the landline rates for simplicity because Vonage *excludes* cell phones whenever the rates are significantly higher than the landline rates. Some countries the cell phone rates are actually less than landline while other countries cell phones are much higher (5x or more) than landline.

You'll notice that almost all the countries are under $0.060/min (again *after* taxes and fees) and most are in the $0.040/min or less category. There are a few odd men out like Iraq, South Africa, and the crown jewel of the Vonage World plan, Kenya at a whopping $0.120/min

Unless you are calling Kenya, Iraq and South Africa all the time, you will be covered at $0.060/min or under, so that $378/yr would buy you *at least* 6,300min/yr (with essentially *no* expiration and 1 second billing increments), 1,780min in the first year.

Most of Europe is sitting at $0.030/min or under giving you *at least* 12,600min/yr (3,566min first year). Personally I think most people would be covered at $0.040/min or under giving them *at least* 9450min/yr but I list all the rates for folks to decide for themselves.

Keep in mind, since there is essentially no expiration (as long as you use once every 12 months), your unused minutes essentially roll over into the next year. I think many people will be better off with Ooma and a calling card than with the Vonage World Plan. If they are calling Kenya all the time though, then Vonage World Plan might make sense.

You can actually get significantly less per minute rates if you are willing to deal with maintenance fees and higher billing increments, but I don't think those are really worth it unless you make long calls and are a high volume caller so I chose the higher rates and reasonable usage rules for comparison.


====

$0.015
Guam

$0.020
Australia, Canada, Ireland, Luxembourg, Poland, Singapore, Thailand, United Kingdom, US Virgin Islands

$0.025
Andorra, Argentina, Brunei, China, Cyprus, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Israel, Italy, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Saipan, South Korea, Spain, Sweden

$0.030
Belgium, Chile, Estonia, Hong Kong, Hungary, Malaysia, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Switzerland, Taiwan

$0.035
Iceland, India, Venezuela

$0.040
Brazil, Croatia, Guadeloupe, Japan, Jordan, Romania, Russia, Slovakia

$0.045
Austria, Bahamas, Peru, San Marino, Slovenia

$0.050
Bahrain, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Latvia

$0.055
Dominican Republic, Macedonia, Malta, Mexico, Turkey

$0.060
Bulgaria, Colombia, Macau, Zambia

$0.065
Iraq

$0.075
South Africa

$0.120
Kenya
#48816 by sfhub
Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:37 am
debonas wrote:How does it change for second year. I have a 24.99 per month cost. Now they are offering 14.99 for 6 months and then it goes up to 24.99.
I don't know if they gave you a special offer, but it says here on the official website $14.99 for 6 months and *$25.99* after that, not $24.99.
http://www.vonage.com/residential_calli ... age_world/

debonas wrote:Of course tax on top of it. I pay 31.XX per month, not 35. I am not sure, how you were charged. Ooma is for domestic calls. Vonage is for international plus domestic unlimited.

Taxes and fees vary greatly from state to state and in different localities. You can see this with nationwide cell phone plans also. Differences can be 10% or more. I think if you are making statements representing "most of us" you should be willing to accept that others may have to pay more than what you are paying. The important point was you left out a significant portion of the monthly payment in your initial post by not mentioning the taxes and fees. Since these can be 25% or more, I think it is important to include them for any apples to apples comparison.

BTW I tried Atlanta, GA Zip Code 30301 in the calculator at the right hand column and it does work out to $35.44 for Vonage World and for Long Island, NY Zip Code 11530 it is $35.73, while for San Francisco, CA Zip Code 94102 it is $31.78.
http://www.vonage.com/residential_calli ... age_world/

debonas wrote:Dont forget, new Ooma charges you 12 usd per year for new users.

It isn't based on whether you are a "new" user. It is based on the product you bought and the terms it came with. Ooma charges $11.75/yr (or $0.98/mo) for Telo and standalone Hub users. Ooma Core (the hub+scout bundle) which is still available from some merchants is grandfathered with no fees, whether you are a new or old user. Also existing users with no fee service upgrading to Telo will continue to have no fees.
Last edited by sfhub on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
#48817 by sfhub
Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:45 am
allo wrote:And before you start counting your chickens before they hatch; those Vonage International calls are just for "landline calls "... and most non western countries don't have landline phones in every household, may be 1 in 10 at best... mostly cell phones which are not included in Vonage plans; and the rates for those cost an arm and a leg... even to Europe !!

It really depends on where you are calling and what your provider has negotiated. For a calling card I have looked at, for Hong Kong it is actually 50% less to call cell phone. For China landline and cell phone is the same. For much of Europe it is 6x to call cell phone vs landline.

Vonage basically includes cell phones in the World Plan as long as the rates are similar or less than landline. If the rates are way more, they are excluded and you get charged per minute rates.
#48834 by allo
Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:13 am
sfhub wrote:
allo wrote:And before you start counting your chickens before they hatch; those Vonage International calls are just for "landline calls "... and most non western countries don't have landline phones in every household, may be 1 in 10 at best... mostly cell phones which are not included in Vonage plans; and the rates for those cost an arm and a leg... even to Europe !!

It really depends on where you are calling and what your provider has negotiated. For a calling card I have looked at, for Hong Kong it is actually 50% less to call cell phone. For China landline and cell phone is the same. For much of Europe it is 6x to call cell phone vs landline.

Vonage basically includes cell phones in the World Plan as long as the rates are similar or less than landline. If the rates are way more, they are excluded and you get charged per minute rates.


You are right; I should have said: "most cell phones are not included..."
However, those so called "WORLD PLANS " are just a gimmick: they only include less than 25% of all the countries ( or half the world population ) minus most cell phones.

Most seem to use the same list of countries included in the "international plans".
For comparison I included those for Vonage and those my cellphone (Green) includes at no extra cost.
Attachments
T.JPG
T.JPG (145.93 KiB) Viewed 5091 times
V.JPG
V.JPG (53.56 KiB) Viewed 5091 times
#48855 by sfhub
Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:56 pm
allo wrote:Most seem to use the same list of countries included in the "international plans".
For comparison I included those for Vonage and those my cellphone (Green) includes at no extra cost.

I compared the Vonage World plan and yours and these are the diffs. Vonage+ means Vonage has something your plan doesn't. Allo+ means your plan had something Vonage didn't.

I think the reason many of the World Plans have similar sets is because those are the countries where they could negotiate down to something that would make sense for the bean counters and usually if one provider can get a certain price, so can another. I'm *guessing* the cutoff point for their costs for a country to be included in a "World" plan is around $0.04/min to $0.06/min. If it costs them more than that (whether that be a country, cellular, etc.) then it won't show up in the "World" plan. Maybe there are some borderline cases where someone makes a judgment call whether including something would be more beneficial for marketing vs the cost.

Vonage+ (72 countries and territories)
Argentina
Bahrain
Guam
Latvia
Macedonia
Puerto Rico
Saipan
South Africa
US Virgin Islands

Allo's cell plan+ (80 countries and territories)
Albania
Bangladesh
Bermuda
Bolivia
Costa Rica
French Antilles
French Guiana
Gibraltar
Guatemala
Indonesia
Kazakhstan
Lithuania
Panama
Paraguay
Saudi Arabia
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
#48889 by sfhub
Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:51 pm
mthomtech wrote:Ooma Premier + International = $120 + $60 + $12 taxes = $192 per year

I think Ooma charges 18% tax on the $5/mon intl bundle so you need to add another $11 of tax to your analysis.

mthomtech wrote:If your calling the most common countries, then your probably averaging 5 cents per minute for those extra minutes.

Again, whatever you think Ooma charges for per minute Intl calls needs to be bumped up by 18%.

Not that it changes your conclusion but we should be fair about comparing apples to apples.
#48893 by mthomtech
Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:04 pm
Of course, if your calling internationally to family or something, the cheapest option is getting them an Ooma too!
#48933 by oomg
Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:32 am
mthomtech wrote:I'm with Groundhound on this one. You'd have to make a heck of a lot of international calls to make Vonage prices tip the balance in your favor. Especially considering you already had Ooma equipment.

Ooma Premier + International = $120 + $60 + $12 taxes = $192 per year
Vonage World = $14.99 + $6 tax per month for 6 months + $25.99 + $6 tax per month for 6 months = $318 1st year ($384 for 2nd year)

So for the first 2 years, you are paying $318 more for Vonage ... after that Ooma is exactly 1/2 of the cost of Vonage. That's a lot of extra money to pay for more international minutes. If your calling the most common countries, then your probably averaging 5 cents per minute for those extra minutes. So you'd have to call over 6000 extra minutes over the first 2 years for Ooma to cost as much as Vonage. After that, nearly 4000 minutes per year to break-even.

Unless you are calling some high cost countries, and calling them a lot. I'd exercise that 30-day "guarantee" from Vonage! But if your math works out, stick with Vonage ... and good luck!


But wait...
debonas wrote:I had Ooma for a while now. I was going to add another line in my house and was eagerly waiting for their 9.99 pm international plan. Now with Ooma shelving the international plan, vonage is all out to kill Ooma.


It may be a bit unfair to factor in the cost of Premier into the comparison since Premier does provide the second line, and as I see it, switching to the Vonage plan only provides one line. Although I have not been a huge fan of MagicJack, they do have some charms. So, if one were communicating daily to one or more relatives in a foreign country, it might be wise to send them a MJ and communicate MJ to MJ.
#48959 by sfhub
Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:55 pm
oomg wrote:It may be a bit unfair to factor in the cost of Premier into the comparison since Premier does provide the second line, and as I see it, switching to the Vonage plan only provides one line. Although I have not been a huge fan of MagicJack, they do have some charms. So, if one were communicating daily to one or more relatives in a foreign country, it might be wise to send them a MJ and communicate MJ to MJ.

Actually I think it is fair to add the cost of Premier if you are comparing Ooma Intl to Vonage Intl because
1) it is required for the Ooma Intl package
2) Vonage World service includes many features that are only available in Ooma Premiere, like multi-ring, 3-way, caller-id with name, voicemail transcriptions, do-not-disturb, anonymous call-block, and call forwarding

However I think if you are using Ooma, you are better off skipping the Intl package and just going with a reputable calling card, and in that case, IMO Ooma is a better deal.

I don't think OP mentioned anything about relatives, just that he needed Intl minutes, presumably more than 500, so it isn't clear that he needed all those minutes to call just one #, and not everyone wants to leave a PC on for MJ. If he really only had one Intl # to call, I think the suggestion above of sending them an Ooma is better than MJ.
#49014 by caseybea
Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:57 am
I'd recommend for anyone wishing to switch service (vonage to ooma, at&t to ooma, whatever) - use a basic spreadsheet and start inputting your costs, rates, and then the variable(s) like the number of minutes of international calls you place.

For a lot of people, ooma is going to pay for itself quickly, but yes, given ooma's international rates, I can see where other services might come up on top. See spreadsheet above, and make sure you accurately enter the number of minutes you talk internationally a month.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests