restart sequence after a power outage

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amoney
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by amoney » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:40 pm

The comment about APC quality slipping is true, 2 years ago we noticed that as well, it does seem that the quality has returned.

I had a APC 350, when brand new powered my 32" CRT television (120 watts) for 20+ minutes, after 3 years it provided about 5+ minutes.

Samll electronics should last a pretty long time on a small UPS.

But yes, the best thing about a UPS is to not see all your AV equipment have a hard power loss. It makes me cring. I just laugh when it happens now.

And if i have a extended power loss, me gots a very pricy Honda inverter generator. Yeah its perhaps over priced, but the lower noise is nice.
Comcast > Telo > WRT54G

murphy
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by murphy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:05 am

bw1 wrote:
murphy wrote:I hope you meant 14 watts instead of 14 amps. 14 amps would be around 1680 watts.

It's not a linear relationship.
If you go to the APC web site and find the specs for the UPS it will include a discharge curve of load vs time.
Doh, yes, I meant watts!

This model is not on the APC site for some reason.
Sure it is.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/tec ... ku=BX1500G
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bw1
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by bw1 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:39 am

murphy wrote:
bw1 wrote:
murphy wrote:I hope you meant 14 watts instead of 14 amps. 14 amps would be around 1680 watts.

It's not a linear relationship.
If you go to the APC web site and find the specs for the UPS it will include a discharge curve of load vs time.
Doh, yes, I meant watts!

This model is not on the APC site for some reason.
Sure it is.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/tec ... ku=BX1500G
Thanks, it wasn't in the list of products that I could see. I didn't search correctly for it though.

The discharge curve doesn't cover a 14 amp load, so I'll still have to test it out.

The box says it will last 164 minutes under about a 40 watt load.

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caseybea
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by caseybea » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:46 am

amoney wrote:
I had a APC 350, when brand new powered my 32" CRT television (120 watts) for 20+ minutes, after 3 years it provided about 5+ minutes.
Batteries in UPS units need to be replaced after a period of time-- yes, approximately 3 years. I suspect probably nothing wrong at all in your APC 350-- it just needs a battery refresh. Many people overlook this and expect their UPS units to last forever.

As a side note, sometimes you will pay about the same price to just go buy a new UPS as it is to replace the battery. The reason is, most stores to not carry the replacement batteries - the replacement batteries are typically only available by order. And when you add in shipping... you might as well go to your local office supply store and get a NEW 350 or whatever. From a tool point of view, I sometimes have to do the same thing with cordless drills. Once the battery wears out, I just buy a new drill set. It's sad that companies make the replacement batteries so expensive....
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Mike-o-Matic
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by Mike-o-Matic » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:04 am

bw1 wrote:The discharge curve doesn't cover a 14 amp load, so I'll still have to test it out.
The box says it will last 164 minutes under about a 40 watt load.
I don't think I've ever owned a UPS that lived up to the claims on the box. Good luck!
Customer Since: November 2009.
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Mike-o-Matic
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by Mike-o-Matic » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:16 am

A BIT OFF TOPIC... on the subject of tool batteries.
caseybea wrote: From a tool point of view, I sometimes have to do the same thing with cordless drills. Once the battery wears out, I just buy a new drill set. It's sad that companies make the replacement batteries so expensive....
FWIW Caseybea, Ridgid cordless tools, which I think are only sold at Home Depot, come with a lifetime guarantee that includes the batteries. I have a Ridgid 14.4 cordless drill that I absolutely LOVE. It makes the old Black & Decker (AKA DeWalt) and Skil (AKA Bosch) ones I used to have look like toys. I've dropped it hard a number of times, too, and it keeps on tickin'.

They claim they'll replace the batteries when they croak. I've had it about three or four years, using it fairly often for a homeowner (I've done some big rehab projects over that time). Both of my batteries are only showing some minor signs of losing longevity, though, so I haven't tested the warranty to see if they live up to that. Maybe inherent long-life is one reason why they can claim "batteries for life." Of course, there's still the little matter of "shipping and handling" but that's gotta be cheaper than a $60 replacement battery, especially if I sent them both in together.

I do know that some brands of modern power tool batteries are commonly LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) and that is an amazing technology with superb performance and longevity characteristics. (The Ridgids I mentioned are only NiMH batteries, nickel-metal-hydride, AKA "last generation"). The UPSes have sealed lead-acid gel batteries. I would LOVE a UPS with a more modern battery chemistry.
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fonzerelli
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by fonzerelli » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:38 pm

Considering how infrequently a UPS battery gets discharged, I see no possible logical reason that their lifespan should be so short.

The probable explanation in my eyes is built in obsolescence.

For less than the cost of a new battery, buy a battery desulphator and recondition your batteries to a like new status.

That's for 12v batteries, which I believe UPS's have.

murphy
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by murphy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:46 pm

fonzerelli wrote:Considering how infrequently a UPS battery gets discharged, I see no possible logical reason that their lifespan should be so short.
That is precisely the problem. They are trickle charged forever and never get cycled. Batteries work best when they are actually used. A 10 second test every two weeks is not nearly enough.
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fonzerelli
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by fonzerelli » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:05 pm

murphy wrote:
fonzerelli wrote:Considering how infrequently a UPS battery gets discharged, I see no possible logical reason that their lifespan should be so short.
That is precisely the problem. They are trickle charged forever and never get cycled. Batteries work best when they are actually used. A 10 second test every two weeks is not nearly enough.
That is not my understanding or experience at all. The fastest way to kill a lead acid battery is to fully discharge it and let it sit.

The batteries I am using for my home UPS system are in better shape than when I got them.

amoney
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Re: restart sequence after a power outage

Post by amoney » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:26 pm

fonzerelli wrote:
murphy wrote:
fonzerelli wrote:Considering how infrequently a UPS battery gets discharged, I see no possible logical reason that their lifespan should be so short.
That is precisely the problem. They are trickle charged forever and never get cycled. Batteries work best when they are actually used. A 10 second test every two weeks is not nearly enough.
That is not my understanding or experience at all. The fastest way to kill a lead acid battery is to fully discharge it and let it sit.

The batteries I am using for my home UPS system are in better shape than when I got them.
Either constant trickle charge over years or frequent full discharge cycles will reduce the up time. Here in south florida a single summer of thunder storms can exhaust a batteries capacity.

I do feel that UPS batteries were better quality years ago, I think due to battery recycling we are seeing weaker batteries in new systems. I just need 5 minutes of covered to avoid the power slamming up and down repeatedly.
Comcast > Telo > WRT54G

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